A child born from Arcueid and Shiki

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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » April 10th, 2009, 4:48 am

Wait I thought that Tohno Shiki was adopted so he wouldn't have any... wait a sec. Unless you count how Akiha saved his life by him obtaining the Tohno blood then yo umay have a point there. In any case I think it has been stated many times that you're not born with the MEoDP you obtain them through near death incidents. The only problem is were you trained to obtain those eyes or not.

If you're going to say she can be born with Shiki's eyes I think you're saying that due to Fujinon's Mystic Eye ability. Hers is the ability to bend things no matter what they are, but the up side is her powers are dormant since she doesn't feel any pain at all. So that would be a slight downisde for here since that also means she can't feel any pleasure either.

In any case she there is a high chance that she might get the same eyes and hair color as her mother. In any case she might have the same personality as her mother for most parts, but I'm sure she'll have her scarcatc moments as well too.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Unread postby Inverted » April 10th, 2009, 5:18 am

Its been theorized that Altourage Bruenstud is a product of a human and a True Ancestor.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » April 10th, 2009, 5:45 am

Yes and she seems to also have somewhat of a shaky relationshi[ with her younger sister Arc as well. It must be a simple case of sibling rivalry on who's better then whom.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Unread postby abscess » April 10th, 2009, 8:49 am

@Kid-Wolf
.... I really am having a bit of a hard time trying to understand your post, lack of sleep perhaps. Okay, I'll try to make sense of it:
Wait I thought that Tohno Shiki was adopted so he wouldn't have any... wait a sec. Unless you count how Akiha saved his life by him obtaining the Tohno blood then yo umay have a point there. In any case I think it has been stated many times that you're not born with the MEoDP you obtain them through near death incidents. The only problem is were you trained to obtain those eyes or not.

- Yes, MEoDP cannot be inherited, as it has been said quite a number of times.
- I said that, if the child were to inherit Shiki's eyes, s/he would have Kiri's eyes, not the MEoDP. I cannot remember where I read it (there is a slight chance I just made it up in my mind without me knowing it; that or i read it in wikia or fuyuki and I just can't find it), but it said that Shiki, in the beginning, had a jougan (Pure Eyes) much like his dad, Kiri. Since MEoDP cannot be inherited only earned, my logic tells me Shiki's kid would have a jougan that would let him/her "percieve thoughts in the form of waves".
- I don't know why you are talking about Akiha, I mentioned her because she likes drinking blood, even though she doesn't really need it like a vampire does.

If you're going to say she can be born with Shiki's eyes I think you're saying that due to Fujinon's Mystic Eye ability.

- Woah! We can't say if the kid is a he or a she, so let's try to keep stuff gender neutral, shall we?
- I really don't get how you jump from talking about Shiki to Fujino. It doesn't seem you finished that sentence. I cannot say much more than that.

Hers is the ability to bend things no matter what they are, but the up side is her powers are dormant since she doesn't feel any pain at all. So that would be a slight downisde for here since that also means she can't feel any pleasure either.

- Hmmm.... yes, but I still don't understand why are you talking about Fujino when the topic was Shiki's and Arcueid's kid. I see no connection.

In any case she there is a high chance that she might get the same eyes and hair color as her mother. In any case she might have the same personality as her mother for most parts, but I'm sure she'll have her scarcatc moments as well too.

- I don't know which eyes would the child get in the end, I merely said that, if they were Shiki's eyes, that could be the result. For all we know a recessive gene could be turned on and the end result would be something completely normal, as in no powers at all.
- I doubt they could be Arcueid's eyes, since those (golden) are for vampires. I can't remember if there is any info of a DA having golden eyes. If there are, then s/he could get Arc's eyes, but then we would probably be dealing with a blood-sucking freak that the Church would try to impale in a stick and cook for a barbeque.
- I don't agree in the hair-color. How can you say that there is a higher chance the kid will be blonde and not brunette? Power-levels really don't play much in genetics, do they?

Yes and she seems to also have somewhat of a shaky relationshi[ with her younger sister Arc as well. It must be a simple case of sibling rivalry on who's better then whom.

This is somewhat off-topic, but I still don't get where is it you understand that Altrouge is the older sister. If my very falible memory serves me right, Arc was created with all the uber-stuff the True Ancestors have, thus there was not enough of the good-shit when Altrouge was created. I do not want to start a discussion about this, I just want to know where is it you got that, since I may be wrong.
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Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby wyldfire » April 10th, 2009, 9:28 am

yeah dude, arc is younger than alt...i read it somewhere too...unfortunately i can't remeber where. :cry: :oops:
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Unread postby Kikuchi » April 10th, 2009, 11:10 am

I don't know what you guys are arguing about. :shock: To me, it's like you guys are saying the same things but in a different way, resulting in misunderstanding.

Also, info about Altrouge:
TYPE-MOON Wiki wrote:Altrouge Brunestud

Altrouge Brunestud is the Princess of the Dead Apostles, born from a mix between a True Ancestor and a Dead Apostle. She is the leader of one of the two main factions among the Apostles and the only other being who could manifest Millennium Castle and earn the title of Brunestud. Though her appearance is described as that of a fourteen-year-old girl, she supposedly has a stronger second form.

Although there isn't any particular information regarding her skills, she has supposedly beaten Arcueid in the past and is the one responsible for cutting her hair, though she was also defeated by the first incarnation of Roa when she tried to stop him. Her guardians, Rizo-Waal Strout, Fina-blood Svelten and her servant Primate Murder are so strong that Merem Solomon believed that he could only defeat them by going down with them. She was also the one responsible for giving Walachia his powers.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » April 10th, 2009, 1:58 pm

abscess wrote:@Kid-Wolf

If you're going to say she can be born with Shiki's eyes I think you're saying that due to Fujinon's Mystic Eye ability.

- Woah! We can't say if the kid is a he or a she, so let's try to keep stuff gender neutral, shall we?
- I really don't get how you jump from talking about Shiki to Fujino. It doesn't seem you finished that sentence. I cannot say much more than that.


Ok I had a reason why I mentioned her since there are a few people that think the MEoDP are inherited. Although I added Fujino to try and state only her eyes were obtained though birth, but they weren't anywere close to the MEoDP. That's what I was trying to get at, but I guess being sleep depribed at the time of the post didn't help though..

Also, about the gender I'd say it's a girl due to that one pic that has Arc an a girl who looks just like her for that matter.

As for Altrouge that was the original idea for Tsukihime 2. Basically Shiki is going to have a thing with the older sister as well even though she is one of the 27 DAAs.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Unread postby Chaos Chaud » April 12th, 2009, 5:11 am

I have questions!!!!!
1- What is "Tsukihime 2"??

2- It is mentioned in Tsukihime that Shiki was problably born with something like a dormant MEoDP and the accident was somehow a trigger to activate it. That way, isn't it likely that, if the arc-shiki kid suffer a near death experience, he/she can awake MEoDP too?
It's not like MEoDP is inherited, but the ability to have MEoDP is. At least, that's what I understood...
"Let Chaos consume your soul, and you won't be neither good nor evil, neither light nor darkness. You will be hollow, will be future, will be freedom." -Chaos Chaud
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"Drown in your ideals and die" -GARcher
"My spine hurts. My body is cold. My fingers are frozen. Yet, my brain burns with fire."- T. Shiki
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Unread postby abscess » April 12th, 2009, 5:35 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:but I guess being sleep depribed at the time of the post didn't help though..

I really had no clue that you wanted to say that, but yah, shit like that happens to me all the time :P

Kid-Wolf wrote:Also, about the gender I'd say it's a girl due to that one pic that has Arc an a girl who looks just like her for that matter.

Pic? What pic?

Kid-Wolf wrote:As for Altrouge that was the original idea for Tsukihime 2. Basically Shiki is going to have a thing with the older sister as well even though she is one of the 27 DAAs.
Never really heard that before. If you could, could you please tell me the source? If it's considered off-topic, by PM or anything is fine. Thanks.

Chaos Chaud wrote:I have questions!!!!!
1- What is "Tsukihime 2"??
But it was just released, didn't you know? You can get it at mirrormoon's homepage! :P
Bad jokes aside, it's the theoretical sequel to Tsukihime. There is this "Talk" side-story that was translated in Beast's Lair that takes place after Tsukihime, but Nasu hasn't decided wether it will be canon or not. There are also other stuff about it in Kagetsu Tohya.

Chaos Chaud wrote:2- It is mentioned in Tsukihime that Shiki was problably born with something like a dormant MEoDP and the accident was somehow a trigger to activate it. That way, isn't it likely that, if the arc-shiki kid suffer a near death experience, he/she can awake MEoDP too?
It's not like MEoDP is inherited, but the ability to have MEoDP is. At least, that's what I understood...

Well, I still have many doubts about the nasu-verse, but I think that it is possible for the kid to earn them. As for the affinity to acquiring them is inheritable or not, I don't know. Considering that a shit-load of people have near-death experiences everywhere in the world all days, T. Shiki and R.Shiki (both from different universes) were special cases where only them, between freaking billions of people in human history, are the only known holders of the crazy-eye powers, make me think that it isn't inheritable. Probably it's something that pops-up randomly, like people having Reality-Marbles. Counting all that, I'd say it could be near impossible for the kid to have them.

Edit: I hate editing my messages because I fucked up before posting!
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Inverted » April 12th, 2009, 5:45 am

abscess wrote: Considering that a shit-load of people have near-death experiences everywhere in the world all days, T. Shiki and R.Shiki (both from different universes) were special cases where only them, between freaking billions of people in human history, are the only known holders of the crazy-eye powers, make me think that it isn't inheritable. Probably it's something that pops-up randomly, like people having Reality-Marbles.


It wasn't exactly random .You acquire MEoDP after a near death experience, only if you have the capability to have it. Remember both T.Shiki and R.Shiki were Psychics . T.Shiki had a jougan like his real father .As for R.shiki she may have had jougan and her "origin" is also Void . So, these factors helped them in acquiring MEoDP.
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Unread postby Kikuchi » April 12th, 2009, 6:26 am

As appealing as it sounds (acquiring MEoDP), experiencing a near-death situation isn't exactly pleasant at all. One step further and you're gone forever. :P
Consider yourself lucky if you end up in a hospital like R. Shiki; pleasantly sleeping while not feeling any pain. :lol:

But still, it may be possible for T. Shiki to push his own kid in front of a speeding car, given the conditions. :lol:

On topic: genetic engineering is the answer if Arc and Shiki were to have a strong kid (as strong as Arc herself). It seems that it's possible to alter genetic information through magic.
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Unread postby Mazyrian » April 12th, 2009, 12:49 pm

There must have been more people with MEoDP; otherwise Arcueid wouldn't have known of them (unless that was just theoretical knowledge, like "from research from mystic eyes in general, there should be possible that some eyes that see death exist"?)
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Unread postby Kikuchi » April 12th, 2009, 1:46 pm

Mazyrian wrote:There must have been more people with MEoDP; otherwise Arcueid wouldn't have known of them (unless that was just theoretical knowledge, like "from research from mystic eyes in general, there should be possible that some eyes that see death exist"?)
But Arc didn't know about that, did she? :?

She thought it was Shiki's knife that enabled him to do "that" ; she was most surprised when Shiki revealed that it's his Eyes. :o
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Unread postby Michael Nanaya » April 12th, 2009, 3:08 pm

A child born for a God of Death and a True Ancestor? Boy, you trying to cause world havoc? :shock:

In any case, I don't think that's possible 'cause she's a bloody vampire (a true one at least) and he's human.

Or simply, I lack imagination 8)
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » April 12th, 2009, 3:13 pm

abscess wrote:
Kid-Wolf wrote:Also, about the gender I'd say it's a girl due to that one pic that has Arc an a girl who looks just like her for that matter.
Pic? What pic?

It was a X-Mas pic where Arc seemed to be carring a younger version of herself in a sack. Although it looked like she was enjoying the ride though.

abscess wrote:
Kid-Wolf wrote:As for Altrouge that was the original idea for Tsukihime 2. Basically Shiki is going to have a thing with the older sister as well even though she is one of the 27 DAAs.
Never really heard that before. If you could, could you please tell me the source? If it's considered off-topic, by PM or anything is fine. Thanks.


Wasn't that shown in Kagetsu Tohya for the peview of the so called Tsukihime 2? I mean they even gave some kind of info about her for the 27 DAAs for the random quotes in Kagetsu Tohya.
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Unread postby Mazyrian » April 12th, 2009, 6:53 pm

Kikuchi wrote:
Mazyrian wrote:There must have been more people with MEoDP; otherwise Arcueid wouldn't have known of them (unless that was just theoretical knowledge, like "from research from mystic eyes in general, there should be possible that some eyes that see death exist"?)
But Arc didn't know about that, did she? :?

She thought it was Shiki's knife that enabled him to do "that" ; she was most surprised when Shiki revealed that it's his Eyes. :o


But Shiki didn't know much about his eyes; when he tells Arcueid that he can see the lines, she recognizes his eyes as the MEoDP (I think it was her that said that name) and explains him the technical details of how they work. That means that she knew about those kind eyes, so at least one more person must have had them at some point of history.
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Unread postby Chaos Chaud » April 12th, 2009, 7:49 pm

I think she even said MEoDP were the most awesome-crazy-monstrous-and-whatever-more-freaking supernatural power that have already appeared in history...
"Let Chaos consume your soul, and you won't be neither good nor evil, neither light nor darkness. You will be hollow, will be future, will be freedom." -Chaos Chaud
"You defeat him" -GARcher
"Drown in your ideals and die" -GARcher
"My spine hurts. My body is cold. My fingers are frozen. Yet, my brain burns with fire."- T. Shiki
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Unread postby abscess » April 13th, 2009, 12:40 am

Inverted wrote:It wasn't exactly random .You acquire MEoDP after a near death experience, only if you have the capability to have it. Remember both T.Shiki and R.Shiki were Psychics . T.Shiki had a jougan like his real father .As for R.shiki she may have had jougan and her "origin" is also Void . So, these factors helped them in acquiring MEoDP.

Well, yeah, that would be the "certain affinity" to acquiring them. But it doesn't seem to be enough. This could be debatable, but didn't Shirou have a near-death experience himself as a kid? He doesn't show any hint of having MEoDP.
Ciel had suffered an innumerable experiences of that kind and also doesn't display anything freaky.


As for R. Shiki having a Jougan or not, I dunno much about the later chapters of KnK nor much of its lore, but; from what I know, she didn't have any before. If I'm correct, having a jougan or something to do with eyes may not be a needed prerequisite.

Inverted wrote:It was a X-Mas pic where Arc seemed to be carring a younger version of herself in a sack. Although it looked like she was enjoying the ride though.

...... I really dunno what'cha talking about, man! Hahahaha! Is it in the UPW thread?

Inverted wrote:
Wasn't that shown in Kagetsu Tohya for the peview of the so called Tsukihime 2? I mean they even gave some kind of info about her for the 27 DAAs for the random quotes in Kagetsu Tohya.
Hmm... there could have been something like that.... I can't check it out, since I lost my KT savestate a long tiem ago... I do remember the 27 DAAs part, but not about anything relating to Altrouge being the big-sis.


Mazyrian wrote:But Shiki didn't know much about his eyes; when he tells Arcueid that he can see the lines, she recognizes his eyes as the MEoDP (I think it was her that said that name) and explains him the technical details of how they work. That means that she knew about those kind eyes, so at least one more person must have had them at some point of history.

Probably, but perhaps not necessarily. Remember that
Arcueid thought of the MEoDP as some sort of a myth that turned out to be true after seeing what Shiki could do.
All data on it could probably be just theoretical info, or there probably was other people with them but hid themselves in order to not become test-subjects to some organization. Who knows?

P.S: I suggest OP puts a spoiler tag in the thread, just in case.
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Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » April 13th, 2009, 1:53 am

Well if that pic isn't in the UPW thread I'll find it and post it up as soon as I can find it of course.
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Unread postby Chaos Chaud » April 13th, 2009, 2:15 am

Well, yeah, that would be the "certain affinity" to acquiring them. But it doesn't seem to be enough. This could be debatable, but didn't Shirou have a near-death experience himself as a kid? He doesn't show any hint of having MEoDP.
Ciel had suffered an innumerable experiences of that kind and also doesn't display anything freaky.


That's what I was trying to say when I suggest the "affinty". It is like : Among people, there are those who have dormant or latent MEoDP. Let's say it is a genetic thing. And it isn't a common gen (it is a rare power after all). But, since it's genetic archiki's kid has it. But ,as a trigger to activate the dormant MEoDP, it is needed a near death experience(or maybe a real death experience). So in the kid case, it won't have MEoDP unless it experiences death. In Shirou's and Ciel's case, they had the death experience, but didn't have the genetic part, the dormant MEoDP.

If think about it that way, it is reasonable that only a few people in history have MEoDP. First it is needed the genetic, the dormant MEoDP (and it is problably rare, very rare unless Shiki starts to reproduce as a rabbit). And of this few people, they still need a death experience to activate it. And let's say that it isn't likely that a lot of people in the world will have a death experience even once in their whole lives.

I think it's a good theory, isn't it? That way we can explain why everyone that lived a death experience have it.

And still leaves possibility to the archiki's kid to have it :)
Last edited by Chaos Chaud on April 13th, 2009, 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"You defeat him" -GARcher
"Drown in your ideals and die" -GARcher
"My spine hurts. My body is cold. My fingers are frozen. Yet, my brain burns with fire."- T. Shiki
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