Final random thoughts on Tsukihime (spoilers)

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Final random thoughts on Tsukihime (spoilers)

Unread postby allanh » February 9th, 2009, 11:58 pm

hi, after recently completing FSN VN, I was really having trouble getting Saber out of my head for weeks. She was just too cute and the Fate route ending was just too sad to let me forget her. So I thought, what the heck, I need to find a way to move on. Solution? Play another VN!!! (<-idiot me)

So I asked around this forum for advice ( viewtopic.php?t=2874 ), knowing that Tsukihime was the first commercial VN Type Moon made. Seeing the positive responses from that thread, I decided to give Tsukihime a go.

I started playing the Arcuied route with an open mind. However, I admit I had early prejudices against this game before I even started.

What, this game does NOT have voice acting?? (yeah, I was spoiled by FSN)
Oh, the opening menu sucks (and is primitive)!
Graphics aren't that impressive......
No music unless we manually adjust the installation process!?
Most importantly, no girl can ever top Saber..

I must admit that they did not give me a good first impression.

However, with the intention of forgeting about Saber, I persisted and started playing the game. The end result is that I finished the first route (Arcruied) after 8 hours of continuous playing(lol, I stayed up all night as a result of that)

Here are some of my thoughts after completing Arcruied route:

1. Damn, what have I done?! I wanted to forget about Saber, but Arcuied is just like Saber!!!! She may seem to be light-hearted on the exterior, as opposed to Saber's seriousness, but the vibe/feeling I got from the 2 girls are exactly the same. Heck, they even almost looked the same. Both of them are kawaii-ichiban, self-sacraficing for the sake of others, loyal, considerate, have super-human power. Anyway, I feel that instead of forgetting Saber, it's like I am falling in love with her all over again + seeing her in the form of Arcuied

2. The storyline is also too familiar to Fate (FSN). A boy with uniquely blessed power (Shirou's projection vs Shiki's point/line cutting) while physically being a normal human being (almost). He (Shiki, Shirou) meet a super cute loyal blonde girl (Arcuied, Saber) and they team up to fight some common enemies (Roa, other servants). The boy both have over-protective nature despite being actually weaker than the girls they are protecting. The heroine gets injured in an initial fight with a badass mini-boss (Chaos, Berserker) and the boy rescued the girl with his life on the line. There are mentors (Ciel, Rin) from the future routes giving the boy advice throughout the story. Then the heroines (have their powers decreased at suboptimal level). Both fight uber-end bosses (Roa, Gilgarmesh) and deplete their magic power and disappeared.

3. However, Arcuied route gave me some relief comparing to Fate when
Arcruied actually survived in the end. Unlike Saber in Fate, she actually stayed in this world. It at least gave me some hope that she and Shiki will end up together (as seen in the Good Ending).


Some dis-similarity:
1. I just like Shirou a lot more than Shiki. Shiki has almost no ideals and is rude towards the girl he loves. Shirou, on the other hand, has ideals and is usually polite and courteous towards those close to him. Shirou is also more gentle on bed (lol) than Shiki who was rough and gave no foreplay before penetration....

2. A lot less fighting and action comparing to FSN

Well, the bottomline is that after playing the 1st route of Tsukihime, instead of getting over Saber, I am now in love with 2 girls (Saber and Arcuied) lol. Damn Type Moon >< At least they have the decency of not toying around with our emotion by creating an alternative Good Ending :)
Last edited by allanh on February 10th, 2009, 12:58 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » February 10th, 2009, 12:01 am

Well I guess in te end this is one of the many reasons why Arc is so popular in the end. I mean she's pretty much at the #1 spot for the tsukihime cast while Saber is also at the #1 spot in the Fate cast respectivly. Although over all I kind of wonder which one is the post popular Saber or Arc?
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Unread postby abscess » February 10th, 2009, 12:14 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:Although over all I kind of wonder which one is the post popular Saber or Arc?

Well, part of the mm forum has spoken: viewtopic.php?t=2711
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Shourai » February 10th, 2009, 12:27 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:I mean she's pretty much at the #1 spot for the tsukihime cast while Saber is also at the #1 spot in the Fate cast respectivly. Although over all I kind of wonder which one is the post popular Saber or Arc?
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Unread postby allanh » February 10th, 2009, 12:41 am

Just a quick question, Tsukihime literally means "Lunar Girl ( 月姫 )". So which girl is it referring to? Arcuied? Ciel? Akiha?
Last edited by allanh on February 10th, 2009, 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby abscess » February 10th, 2009, 12:46 am

allanh wrote:Just a quick question, Tsukihime literally means "Lunar Girl ( 月姫 )". So which girl is it referring to? Arcruied? Ciel? Akiha?

Hmm.. isn't it "Lunar Princess"? If my failing kanji isn't so rusted, I think that the kanji for "woman" (dunno if there is a kanji specific for "girl") is 女 and is read as "onna". The kanji 姫 reads "hime" and means "princess". I think the title "Tsukihime" (月姫) is reads as "lunar princess" or "moon princess" or something similar to it.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby allanh » February 10th, 2009, 12:51 am

so who is it referring to?
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Unread postby Atriel » February 10th, 2009, 12:54 am

^To Arcueid. (Not Arcrueid.)

Also, i liked Shiki exactly because of the reasons you do to not like him as much. He seems natural, unlike Shirou's fakeness (is this a word?) But that's me, let's not turn it into a vs. thread. :lol:

And... Shiki over-protective? Maybe you haven't read enough <.<
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Unread postby Shourai » February 10th, 2009, 12:57 am

allanh wrote:Just a quick question, Tsukihime literally means "Lunar Girl ( 月姫 )". So which girl is it referring to? Arcruied? Ciel? Akiha?
"Princess of the Moon". It refers to Arcueid, no doubt (Princess of the True Ancestors). TYPE-MOON VNs have their title references to the icon girls. :) (Arc&Saber)
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Unread postby abscess » February 10th, 2009, 12:58 am

allanh wrote:so who is it referring to?
Well, there is no woman who goes by the title of princess in that story, other than Arcueid, that is. It's repeated quite a lot by Nrvnqsr (Nero) "blahblahblahblah The Princess of the True Ancestors blahblahblahblah The Princess blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah Princess blah Princess of the True Ancestors blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahPROFIT!". And, as you know, the True Ancestors were a group of dudes who were some sort of clones from an uberdood from the moon called Crimson Moon. In other words, Arceuid comes from the Moon (don't ask, I'm clueless on how the hell does she go from there to Earth....) and is called the Princess of the True Ancestors by our bestest friend, Nrvnqsr, multiple times. Being the Princess and from the Moon ( :? )... well, you get the meaning.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby allanh » February 10th, 2009, 1:00 am

Atriel wrote:^To Arcueid. (Not Arcrueid.)

Also, i liked Shiki exactly because of the reasons you do to not like him as much. He seems natural, unlike Shirou's fakeness (is this a word?) But that's me, let's not turn it into a vs. thread. :lol:

And... Shiki over-protective? Maybe you haven't read enough <.<


Edited (thanks).

uh, I don't feel Shirou is fake at all. He seems genuinely believing in his ideals.
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Unread postby Shourai » February 10th, 2009, 1:13 am

allanh wrote:Edited (thanks).

uh, I don't feel Shirou is fake at all. He seems genuinely believing in his ideals.
But still, it's a borrowed ideal. Not to mention he is a Faker. :lol:
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Unread postby Mkilbride » February 10th, 2009, 3:05 am

Your review is shocking.

F/SN did not have Voice Acting by default, you know, you had to add it in with a patch. It's much better without voices, by the way.

Primitive menu? Uh...what? F/SN's menu wasn't any better, lol.

Graphics aren't impressive? I'm what's called a "Graphics Whore", in the video game world, and I found Tsukihimes effects very impressive.

So you have to manually insert the music due to the way the game was made, not a big pain.

Also, yer going on and on about Saber. You played them in Reverse order. Also, I never thought Saber & Arc are alike. I can't even imagine comparing them...

Story is nowhere near the same. Shirou has almost endless joy in most routes. Pretty much every Route of Tsukihime leaves you sad in some way, some girl has a horrible life if you choose another girl, ect. This does not happen in Fate / Stay Night.(Sakura does not count, because the HGW was over and she'd be mostly useless after all that to Zouken)

Wasn't really a commercial VN, it was a Doujin Game.(It later became more of a VN though)

Also, like others have said, the reason most of us like Tsukihime better is the more "Real world feel", I feel more for Shiki than I do for Shirou. Shirou is like a little kid in candy land and won't accept reality. Shiki is a realist, he lives life, knowing how things are, and he'll do whats right. Shirou will do what's wrong if it's more pleasing to him, but Shiki will do what's right even if it hurts him deeply.(Isn't it sad, Sacchin?)Shirou would of allowed Sacchin to nomnomnom himself up and lived a horrible life with Sacchin, who would of still been sad, but this time so would Ciel, Ahika, Kohaku, and Hisui. Shiki foresaw this and chose the correct path. Shirou would of been blinded by his Virtue.

Also, while UBW and tracing is cool and all, it's still physical. Shiki can kill the planet, the air, concepts, disease, ectera.(Shiki could kill the -cancer- in your body if he pin-pointed it) That is an epic power. He would make a great Surgeon. :P At one point in the VN, Shiki kills a part of the planet, a entire park dies. He is the Grim Reaper incarnate. His Nanaya skills would be superior to Non-Archer Shirou also. In a Human Shirou(Without aide from Archers arm, also), VS. Shiki or Nanaya Shiki, Shiki would win.

I can identify with Shiki. I'll always make the right choice...even if it ends up hurting me. I'll sacrifice the happy ending for the better ending.

Fate / Stay Night I enjoyed a great deal, but Tsukihime I still enjoy more. I love Archer, he is badass, his look, his abilities...attitude, everything!

Yet Shiki comes out on top. Only he can sleep with 6-7 woman and not come out like a womanizing asshole. :P Tohno GLAND!
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Unread postby allanh » February 10th, 2009, 3:08 am

Mkilbride wrote:Your review is shocking.

!


TBH, it's not a review, it's MY opinions. You can have different opinions but I don't see how you can call something subjective "shocking" just because you don't agree with them
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Unread postby allanh » February 10th, 2009, 3:11 am

Mkilbride wrote:F/SN did not have Voice Acting by default, you know, you had to add it in with a patch. It's much better without voices, by the way.



you are kidding , right? If you aren't, I don't think many will agree
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Unread postby Mkilbride » February 10th, 2009, 3:16 am

Double posting. I'm sure Message will smack me around soon, but I have to voice this at least.

Visual Novel

Voices can break a game. Some games can be better with them, but most Visual Novels I read that have Voices really ruin my opinion of a character sometimes, and alot of the VN's I read don't have options to turn Voices off.(Sure, yer random Hentai game will, like Figures of Happiness, but I'm talking about quality games:P)
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Unread postby that one guy » February 10th, 2009, 3:26 am

Hey, don't knock FoH! That was a great game...so long as you didn't branch beyond the two main girls paths.
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Unread postby Shourai » February 10th, 2009, 3:27 am

Haha,Mkilbride's review of review actually made me laugh.

F/SN did not have Voice Acting by default, you know, you had to add it in with a patch. It's much better without voices, by the way.
You know, there would not be many people caring to add the voice patch if they weren't interested in voices from the beginning.

Primitive menu? Uh...what? F/SN's menu wasn't any better, lol.
Well, from what I can figure, you must be either a primitive man or ignorant about technology. :P F/sn save and load slots are far bigger. It has voice and sfx normalizer. It has auto read. Saving and loading are much easier (compared to Tsukihime patch 1.1)

Graphics aren't impressive? I'm what's called a "Graphics Whore", in the video game world, and I found Tsukihimes effects very impressive.
You know, most people won't deny that F/sn has better graphics than Tsukihime

Also, I never thought Saber & Arc are alike. I can't even imagine comparing them...
Well, your problem. Some people can actually relate them one with the other. :P

Story is nowhere near the same. Shirou has almost endless joy in most routes. Pretty much every Route of Tsukihime leaves you sad in some way, some girl has a horrible life if you choose another girl, ect. This does not happen in Fate / Stay Night.(Sakura does not count, because the HGW was over and she'd be mostly useless after all that to Zouken)
Because in F/sn,there are only three routes, dood. Shirou's harem isn't half big as Shiki's

Also, while UBW and tracing is cool and all, it's still physical. Shiki can kill the planet, the air, concepts, disease, ectera.(Shiki could kill the -cancer- in your body if he pin-pointed it) That is an epic power. He would make a great Surgeon. :P At one point in the VN, Shiki kills a part of the planet, a entire park dies. He is the Grim Reaper incarnate. His Nanaya skills would be superior to Non-Archer Shirou also. In a Human Shirou(Without aide from Archers arm, also), VS. Shiki or Nanaya Shiki, Shiki would win.
Ignoring the fact that they both won't have future after the battle... :P

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Unread postby that one guy » February 10th, 2009, 3:35 am

Story is nowhere near the same. Shirou has almost endless joy in most routes. Pretty much every Route of Tsukihime leaves you sad in some way, some girl has a horrible life if you choose another girl, ect. This does not happen in Fate / Stay Night.(Sakura does not count, because the HGW was over and she'd be mostly useless after all that to Zouken)


Something I was thinking about, Shiki really ****s up their lives. I mean, Ciel is the only one who was messed up before and might lead a messed up life after without Shiki. Arc? She's be just fine going about her business. Akiha? She'd continue leading her life as it was. Hisui? Same deal. Kohaku? Well...we all know about Kohaku. Her life sucks regardless. And, assuming that Kohakus route isn't cannon, Ciels dream comes true regardless. All is well for most of them in all the routes.
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Unread postby sabata2 » February 10th, 2009, 3:50 am

Mkil has a point.

Just like a bad Dubbing can ruin an anime, bad VAs can ruin it as well.


I agree the menu is bland, but really there isn't much that's needed. Fate wasn't much different. I think it separated CG viewing from Ending Viewing, but that's it.

Graphics... meh IMO Tsuki felt FAR more like a book. (And a damned good one at that)
So I really didn't need graphics. Sure the fight scenes in FSN are cool and all, but stuff like that would be out of place in Tsuki.

The Music GREATLY enhances the gameplay.
It's 10 minutes of annoyance for multiple hours of fun. IMO Pros > Cons.

I can't agree that Arc is like Saber. But I will admit I fell for Arc just like you did.

And you can use that Storyline similarity for WAY too many comparisons.
In nearly every fantasy story, the main character isn't "normal", he has a love interest that is "the utter ideal beauty", They usually don't know their powers until they are forced to use them in a "miniboss" fight. They gain a mentor as to their powers, and then they pwn some end boss.

If you swap Genders around in that you can fit most any story in there.


AAAANYWAYS, my opinion has been stated already. I prefer Tsuki to Fate simply because it's got a more "Real world feel".
Sure there's Vampires and the Church is out to get you, but The way it's presented Vampires actually sound plausible.
With Fate, there's far too much suspension of disbelief.
First Magic. Then UberMajickz Holy Grail. Then Heroes coming back as Uber-Pwn Familiars.
Main Char actually ends up being a Hero.
Main Char ends up pwning some of the Heroes at the end.

Fate just seems to be like a boy becoming a God.

Tsuki is just a boy who's living with a disease.
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