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Unread postby randomanon? » July 17th, 2008, 6:18 am

Played Tsukihime first, was blown away, played Fate/Stay Night fate route, was blown away to a lesser degree. replayed Fate/Stay Night with voice patch and It is really hard to choose. Tsukihime is superior in pure story, but not so much that it blows Fate's other perks out. Better quality of music (like both soundtracks alot though), Better CG, more action in a storyline that is only shadowed by Tsukihime (then again, everything is shadowed by it), and VOICES!!! honestly, if they added voices to the Tsukihime remake...
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Unread postby Tash » July 17th, 2008, 7:36 am

For the sake of providing an alternate opinion, I could never really get into Tsukihime. I felt that the story was good, it just wasn't planned out as much as it should have been. For example, there are several times when it feels like the author isn't sure how to introduce the next plot point, so it just comes up very suddenly. The most jarring example I came across was near the end of Arc's route, when
Ciel reveals everything, then while you're still trying to process the information, Akiha pops up and reveals even more major plot points. I just really felt that there should have been something between the two conversations so that it didn't feel like they were running out of time and needed to quickly give you all of the information you needed to start the final battle. There are lots of smaller examples of this too, such as after the talk with Satsuki on the first day when Shiki very suddenly starts talking about his childhood as soon as she leaves.


From the two routes I got through, there were a lot of things like that. Once again though, the story was good from what I've seen, it just could have been told better. The upcoming remake could possibly fix the pacing problems, though.
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Unread postby abscess » July 17th, 2008, 9:08 am

Tash wrote:For the sake of providing an alternate opinion, I could never really get into Tsukihime. I felt that the story was good, it just wasn't planned out as much as it should have been. For example, there are several times when it feels like the author isn't sure how to introduce the next plot point, so it just comes up very suddenly. The most jarring example I came across was near the end of Arc's route, when
Ciel reveals everything, then while you're still trying to process the information, Akiha pops up and reveals even more major plot points. I just really felt that there should have been something between the two conversations so that it didn't feel like they were running out of time and needed to quickly give you all of the information you needed to start the final battle. There are lots of smaller examples of this too, such as after the talk with Satsuki on the first day when Shiki very suddenly starts talking about his childhood as soon as she leaves.


From the two routes I got through, there were a lot of things like that. Once again though, the story was good from what I've seen, it just could have been told better. The upcoming remake could possibly fix the pacing problems, though.

Yes, I do know what you are talking about. If I remember correctly, you are talking about the "plot dump" part of the story. I think that it could have been avoided if there was some kind of transition between them (like you said), but most of the stories I've read have to deal with that and I can't remember any one that has dealt with it in a satisfactory way... Maybe they did have to meet with a deadline or something, I'm not sure. I also hope that those minor annoyances are addressed and fixed in the remake.
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Unread postby Alloflifedecays » September 2nd, 2008, 10:08 pm

ayadew wrote:Let's just say everyone on this forum would kill stuff IRL for tsukihime 2.

...Yes...for tsukihime 2...(wonders how that motive would go down in court).

I've read both, I found Tsukihime was better; the main character is much better, the stories are more poignant and more moving, and there's not as many crazed fans Rule 34'ing for loli (Until you get to Kagetsu Tohya, in which case they don't have to). However, I found that the mythology of F/SN is better developed and it really takes advantage of the extra budget.

Oh, and a side note, there are not really any of the disturbingly awkward and cringe-inducing sex scenes in Tsukihime
like the terrible Rin one. She was the only genuinely hot (read; not cute) heroine in there and the sex scene was just embarrasing
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Unread postby that one guy » September 2nd, 2008, 11:08 pm

Alloflifedecays wrote:Oh, and a side note, there are not really any of the disturbingly awkward and cringe-inducing sex scenes in Tsukihime


I beg to differ. I found the first sex scene in the Near Side route, whether it be Arc, Ciel, or Akiha, to be extremely awkward, and the Akiha one to be cringe inducing because it was so WTF.
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Unread postby Shirou » September 9th, 2008, 3:00 am

that one guy wrote:
Alloflifedecays wrote:Oh, and a side note, there are not really any of the disturbingly awkward and cringe-inducing sex scenes in Tsukihime


I beg to differ. I found the first sex scene in the Near Side route, whether it be Arc, Ciel, or Akiha, to be extremely awkward, and the Akiha one to be cringe inducing because it was so WTF.


The dream ero scene? Akiha's/ Kohaku's one is awesome.
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Unread postby Thanateros » September 10th, 2008, 6:45 am

Alloflifedecays wrote:Oh, and a side note, there are not really any of the disturbingly awkward and cringe-inducing sex scenes in Tsukihime


I beg to differ, even if i reckon it is mostly a matter of taste and preference. If anything, the sex scenes came as dramatically out of place in most paths, at least from the perspective of storytelling and writing, a term used here not as a measure of the prose's quality but of the timing and flow of the plot. To compare the "normal" and "sexual" events is to be amazed both belong to the same story and were, probably, written by the same guy.

I will forward two examples, just for the sake of discussion -

Ciel's route: A nicely executed tale of dark urban fantasy that turns into a desperate race against the clock and puts the protagonist's sanity on the edge...

...just to throw some awkward sexual comedy and pull out of their asses an out-of-place intercourse scene, complete with amazingly stupid dialogue and, i paraphrase, "My butt is in pain" as a punchline, managing to kill almost all the tension and atmosphere built until then and temporally turning the two most hardcore badassess of the story into a pair of bumbling idiots just before the no-barrels-hold final battle against enemies both internal and external begins. It is needless to say i was not impressed.


Akiha's route: A tale mixing elements of the gothic and the romantic, both words used here as genres or styles instead of adjectives, with a modern highschool setting, that was very well executed until our heroes...

decide the better way to deal with the problems at hand, including an inescapable family curse and a very dangerous, obsessed, and jealous undead serial murderer with a grudge and for whom the concept of mental stability is but a theorical construct, is to debate and argument the philosophical questions regarding the cuteness of small breasts and the various definitions of incest, subjecting then the topics to empirical scrutiny, in a small isolated building completely surrounded by ambushes waiting to happen. The reaction can't be expressed by words alone, so allow me to ilustrate by means of an emoticon: :roll:.


Just for balance i will say Arcueid's sex scene was not out of place since her route was nothing but a thinly veiled magical girlfriend fantasy with better writing than usual and a more interesting context, and hanging my head in shame i will concede parts of Senpai's dream sequence are so f***ing hot it hurts. But to say there is "not really any of the disturbingly awkward and cringe-inducing sex scenes in Tsukihime" is a bit of an exageration, i believe.
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Unread postby Atriel » September 10th, 2008, 6:44 pm

Thanateros wrote:I beg to differ


Hey, i know that band (Thanateros)... unless it's that magic society thingie...? Or something else.

Oh yeah, and i kinda agree with you there, there ARE awkward sex scenes :lol:
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Unread postby that one guy » September 10th, 2008, 7:29 pm

To be fair to both sides, now that I think about it, the three sex scenes in F/SN were used as a device and not as a natural conclusion, and most of the ones in Tsukihime were just thrown in there for shits and giggles/to sell the game.
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Unread postby ayadew » September 10th, 2008, 8:32 pm

Thanateros wrote:
Alloflifedecays wrote:Oh, and a side note, there are not really any of the disturbingly awkward and cringe-inducing sex scenes in Tsukihime


I beg to differ


Hehe, yes I must agree.
It's good to see someone else agreeing with my view of tsukihime as gothic, because it very much is...
The thing I appreciated most with tsukihime is the dark and brooding feeling of true darkness of man's mind, forbidden secrets and death. It is mature and it's very convincing in it's execution. The characters are (with some exceptions) original which is something that is extremely lacking in visual novels...

Arcueid's sex scene was the only romantic one, the others simply had some forced reason or was constructed simply to have a scene... very uninspiring.
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Unread postby Rikh » September 11th, 2008, 3:28 am

ayadew wrote:
Thanateros wrote:
Alloflifedecays wrote:Oh, and a side note, there are not really any of the disturbingly awkward and cringe-inducing sex scenes in Tsukihime


I beg to differ


Hehe, yes I must agree.
It's good to see someone else agreeing with my view of tsukihime as gothic, because it very much is...
The thing I appreciated most with tsukihime is the dark and brooding feeling of true darkness of man's mind, forbidden secrets and death. It is mature and it's very convincing in it's execution. The characters are (with some exceptions) original which is something that is extremely lacking in visual novels...

Arcueid's sex scene was the only romantic one, the others simply had some forced reason or was constructed simply to have a scene... very uninspiring.


i thought hisui's and kohakus scenes went in fairly well. Although Akiha's and Ciels were kinda forced
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Unread postby Thanateros » September 13th, 2008, 4:16 pm

Atriel wrote:Hey, i know that band (Thanateros)... unless it's that magic society thingie...? Or something else.


From the Magic Society. I don't swing Chaote, though - i stole it from them just because the implications of "Sex & Death" seemed spot-on for a Tsukihime fan in a Tsukihime forum. Is the band good?

ayadew wrote:The thing I appreciated most with tsukihime is the dark and brooding feeling of true darkness of man's mind, forbidden secrets and death. It is mature and it's very convincing in it's execution.


It was actually surprising to see a japanese "game" exploring, in an informed manner, a western literary genre most of the western world seems to have forgotten about, at least in it's original incarnation.

Also, i am glad to see other people sharing such opinion. I was starting to believe i was reading too much into it out of love and admiration.
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Unread postby Atriel » September 13th, 2008, 4:23 pm

Well... if you like folk metal with a small touch of gothic, it is good.

Truth be said, i've heard better.
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Unread postby ToxicOne » September 17th, 2008, 6:04 am

Hmm...I played through the Arc and Akiha's routes and I thought it was good...I just need the time to actually finish the other routes, heh...
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