Melty Blood (temporarily?) canceled

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Melty Blood (temporarily?) canceled

Unread postby TheXev » August 4th, 2004, 2:35 am

Effective immediately, Melty Blood is canceled. Someone by the name of MrMann has placed a full distribution of Melty Blood on a ?popular? BitTorrent site, and as such I am forced to end the project for the immediate future.

This user has failed to understand the Terms of Service agreement set forth in readme.txt (Section II, paragraph 1, sentence 2) in Revolve?s MeltyBloodEnglish1.100E.001 patch. This is how the paragraph reads:

?By installing this patch, you agree to the terms and agreement set forth in the text of the original Melty Blood, whatever their meaning may be. This software is designed as a patch for Melty Blood, and is not meant to be included with any legally or illegally produced CD. By installing this software, you agree that no members of Revolve Translations are liable for any damage incurred to any software or hardware that you own as a result of the installation and usage of this software.?

The Melty Blood project will not be resumed until all seeds on this torrent have disconnected, or the torrent is removed from this popular torrent site. Some may not view it as fair, but I will do something to stop this misuse of our patch. Some people wondered what would happen if this situation ever occurred, now they know.

Further action against these users will be taken during the week, including being banned from the website, being reported for software piracy, and being reported to their internet service provider.

This torrent will be continuously monitored until the conditions have been met.
Last edited by TheXev on August 4th, 2004, 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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reality check

Unread postby Nyarlathotep » August 4th, 2004, 3:28 am

Look, no matter what you translate, you will eventually see it spread on a large scale. If you want to be pussies about it, then just stop translating, because anything you will do will end up that way.

*TheXev: Fixed my permissions error. Now others can't edit your post ><
Last edited by Nyarlathotep on August 4th, 2004, 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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man people are rude these

Unread postby seelee » August 4th, 2004, 5:11 am

Hold your tongue Nyarlathotep. These people a providing a good service to the community. The least that people can do is repect how this group wants their translation to be distributed. Its not as if they want to hog the patch they made all to themselves.
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Unread postby sssssz » August 4th, 2004, 5:19 am

Checked each IP and most of them are from Netherland, Uruguay, and a country in pacific (Couldn't figure what the initials stood for... but the title of the provider mentioned Asian-pacific.) There are many California, but still major of them are from non-English speaking country... I don't really see a reason to halt the translation. I'm sure that my logic doesn't make sense (but I wish it does.)

And I must agree with Nyarlathotep. Those things do happen and there are no way to stop them..
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Unread postby TheXev » August 4th, 2004, 7:20 am

Look, no matter what you translate, you will eventually see it spread on a large scale. If you want to be pussies about it, then just stop translating, because anything you will do will end up that way.

The fact of the matter is the terms of service have been violated, and I won?t stand for it. There was an interesting discussion in the chat room over this already, and all project leaders seemed to agree with my action. I only really asked one thing from the people and that was not to distribute this patch with any legal or illegal version of Melty Blood.

By the way, if we were being ?pussies? about this, we wouldn?t be taking such steep action. Am I flattered by a torrent with our patch? Absolutely not! Even if the project is resumed after this incident, I will be forced to only distribute it in Canada, the United States, and the United Kingdom, and to force everyone to get an individual version of the patch that can be traced in the future.

Hold your tongue Nyarlathotep. These people a providing a good service to the community. The least that people can do is repect how this group wants their translation to be distributed. Its not as if they want to hog the patch they made all to themselves.

Thank you for your good comments. It?s good to see that some people understand how we feel.
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An 'impartial' view

Unread postby Snover » August 4th, 2004, 7:40 am

From someone that will not ever be downloading the patch because they are not interested in this sort of thing, but has to say something...

TheXev, I wouldn't say you're "forced" to do anything. And distributing to only three countries is A. useless, and B. impossible, so don't even think about that. Tracking the files is possible, but really, what are you going to do if you do catch someone in the act? I ask myself the same question with my own releases: If someone IS caught, what can happen to them? Not a whole lot. Bannage. Public humiliation. Small-scale retaliation, perhaps, and hopefully enough other things to get it through to them and everyone else that such behaviour is unacceptible, but in the end all these actions really doesn't accomplish much, and there is no true legal recourse. Perhaps there are more creative things that could be done (with a little brainstorming I'm sure we could come up with some), but I don't know. It's sure not cool that someone went and did this, but I think that your reaction is a little extreme. Hurting everyone because of what one individual does is a great way to generate hatred toward the person that did it -- it's also a great way to generate hatred toward you for punishing the rest of the people that want to see this finished because of something they didn't do and were unable to prevent. Certainly the general populace doesn't have any ultimate say over what happens, nor do they deserve anything (if anything, perhaps cancelling this is exactly what all the leeches deserve, especially people like Nyarlathotep whom have no compassion and are just general arses all around), but let's get real: if you want to do a translation, commit yourself to it and don't let things like this get in your way.

Lesson for the future: People are assholes and they enjoy taking advantage of others. Don't:
  1. distribute patches publicly
  2. distribute patches to anyone without a way to track them down if their copy is leaked so that this person, whom you KNOW (from engaging them one-on-one when releasing the patch to them), can get what's coming to them.


I can certainly understand where you're coming from with this whole thing; I'd be pissed if I found someone disrespecting me in this manner. I also hope that the releaser wises their ass up and stops seeding, but like I said, you shouldn't take such a drastic measure. In the end, it's your decision, and hopefully everyone will respect that. Still, it feels very drastic and emotional, and not very logical.

Greets,
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Unread postby Haeleth » August 4th, 2004, 4:33 pm

This is a perfectly reasonable response.

What you need to remember is that fan translations are in a rather grey area legally in the first place. The survival of translation projects depends on the goodwill of the copyright holders; they cannot afford to be associated with piracy in any way, shape, or form. Idiots who distribute pirated copies of unofficially translated games are quite literally endangering the translation project. If the copyright holders get the impression that the translators are condoning that behaviour, they are very likely to shut them down.

An open message to the leechers: it would be nice if you'd consider compensating the authors of these games for their hard work, but if you're determined to pirate them, maybe you'd like to try pirating the originals and applying the patches yourselves. It's hardly tricky, and it might prevent this kind of response from being necessary again.
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Re: An 'impartial' view

Unread postby Guest » August 4th, 2004, 4:42 pm

[quote="Snover"](if anything, perhaps cancelling this is exactly what all the leeches deserve, especially people like Nyarlathotep whom have no compassion and are just general arses all around)

Oi, I, too, have worked and still do with translation groups in the past, and i know how it is to get your stuff taken and used in ways that werent intended to be when released. I'm just saying that if your passion or desire about providing a translation is that weak, then you should just give up. I wont deny that i'm an ass, but the leech part isnt the truth.
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Unread postby Guest2 » August 4th, 2004, 5:58 pm

I completely agree with revolve quitting the translation...

The translation is definitely a grey area, but as legality goes... it's still legal. Considering the patch is not a game, and all it does is translates the real game. It does no wrong whether you distribute the patch or not, but once you provide the real game, you're considered pirating.

No matter what, once you did install the patch/game/etc... you automatically agree to the terms... if you break those terms, it's becomes a problem to the creator. I think revolve is in the right here. No matter what has happened, it doesn't matter where the files are being seeded, the terms are broken.

I hope revolve gets back on the horse and continues translating, but if not... it'll suck... good luck!
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Unread postby DragonNeoReborn » August 4th, 2004, 6:48 pm

Damn, all I have to say is.. This sux. Defending distribution of the torrent is outrageous. If they really wanted to all they had to do was say an english patch was available here... I hope they at least take off Revolve's translation if they continue to release the game.

And about only distributing it in 3 countries. Snoover's right, thats impossible unless you felt like only using irc and looking up everyones ip address.... in which case it would probably be pointless to continue the project anyway. I think that you should somehow get in contact with the distributers and convince them to take down the torrent.. If they are true type-moon fans they will. (which they probably aren't because they put the torrent up in the first place.)
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Unread postby AznTyrant256 » August 4th, 2004, 10:12 pm

all I have to say is... DAMN this sucks... good Arcturus patch isnt anywhere ready to be released... but even then I guess no one knows about it.. maybe a few but not quiet that LARGE
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Unread postby Zero3K » August 5th, 2004, 1:56 am

Ugh, the torrent is still going...
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Unread postby Guest » August 5th, 2004, 2:07 am

It pains me to see something like this because revolve is a respecatble group that's trying to do things right...
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Unread postby linalys » August 5th, 2004, 8:04 pm

I'm sorry to hear the translation has been halted, but defend your ToS. I'm in support of Revolve's decision.
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Unread postby Lunas » August 5th, 2004, 8:35 pm

I do agree with the actions taken by revolve. However I dont feel that they should be as angry as they are that it got torrented what they should be mad about is that the unfinished product got torrented. And as for the person who uploaded it the Jack@$$ that he is prolly didnt bother reading any ToS for either melty blood or the patch.


Further I had not herd of type-moon before I saw the anime and began to research where it came from and the other things that were associated with it.

How likely is it that type moon will do a US release for the melty blood games. I know the anime is licensed but the games are unlicensed for us release :(
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Unread postby DragonNeoReborn » August 5th, 2004, 11:20 pm

Highly unlikely. The only chance that the U.S. even gets a Tsukihime game is if ecole succesfully makes their arcade port, act cadenza. (see my website: http://www.ramuneanime.com/tsuk/mbarcade.htm) Otherwise it would almost never be liscensed in America due to the fact that it's a doujin. Also the fact that the previous Tsukihime graphic novels are all H-games the chance of them making it to America is basically none.
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Unread postby CaptainOverkill » August 5th, 2004, 11:31 pm

I'm very sorry to hear the translation has been stopped. I'm also angry at this character for seeding it. That being said, a few thoughts.

First, this is the internet. There are too many people on it for there NOT to be jerks. It's a fact of life.

What happened is entirely predictable. Because there are jerks, sooner or later you're going to find one who's willing to do this. The honor system simply is not going to stop this. End of story. Even if this guy does take down the torrent, it's been up long enough that it's going to keep being redistributed through other channels. The genie is out of the bottle, folks. If Revolve is not willing to change its policy then Melty Blood's translation project is de facto over.

I would suggest that Revolve think very, very hard about both its distribution policy and translating Tsukihime. Even if you privately distribute translations to just your friends, sooner or later it's going to end up on Bit Torrent or a filesharing service, though it may take months or even years. If you are willing to let the one or two people who violate the honor system ruin it for all the other honest users, you should think very hard before translating anything else, because you're going to end up stopping halfway through again. It WILL eventually get used in a way you don't like, no matter how nicely you ask people not to. Because there is ALWAYS one or two jerks out there who simply do not know or care.[/i]
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Unread postby Animearti » August 6th, 2004, 8:04 am

Yeah, i agree.. unfortunatly in any way you distribute your hard work its highly likey this kinda thing will happen. Its sad that this kinda thing happens but this kinda thing has been happening for years. If you do resume work on this translation, lets hope that the largest percentage of people that get to enjoy it, have acctually payed thier dues so to speak.
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Unread postby Haeleth » August 6th, 2004, 12:03 pm

Guest2 wrote:The translation is definitely a grey area, but as legality goes... it's still legal.

I admire your optimism. Unfortunately, under international law - to be precise, article 8 of the Berne Convention - the right of translation is exclusively reserved to the copyright holders. The grey area only surrounds the question of whether an unauthorised translation is a copyright violation if the copyright holders have not objected to it. If they do object, the translation is most certainly illegal.

Note that the method of distribution is irrelevant, as any unauthorised translation, whether a text file, a patch, or a full game, is an unauthorised derivative work. The difference is pragmatic, not legal: distributing only a patch encourages people to buy the game, and so it may be in the copyright holders' interest to turn a blind eye.

It is therefore necessary for Revolve's position on piracy to be absolutely clear. I suspect it probably is now. ;)

(Disclaimer: IANAL, but I have discussed the subject with one.)
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Unread postby new guy » August 6th, 2004, 3:17 pm

I had never even heard of this game or the patch until now, i'll download it later tonite, does anyone have a link to the torrent ?
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